Home
QueenieChan.com - LiveJournal - The Dreaming: On Girls Reading Shounen... [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
QueenieChan.com

[ website | queenichan.com - Manga/Comics ]
[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

The Dreaming: On Girls Reading Shounen... [May. 26th, 2006|05:49 pm]
Previous Entry Add to Memories Tell a Friend Next Entry
[Current Mood | busy]

I believe I wrote something on this LJ about the topic before, but it's been a long time and I can't remember. Maybe it was someone else's LJ.

The folks at Pseudome posted up an interesting article of Matt Thorn's. Matt is pretty well known - he's an associate professor at Kyoto Seika University, and has been studying shoujo manga for over 20 years. He's an avid fan, and there is no better person to talk to than him about shoujo manga in general, but I was surprised to see him lambast contemporary shoujo manga (or rather, shoujo manga editors) in the way he did.

Now, I've never been a huge fan of shoujo manga - I grew up reading and liking my "DragonBall Z". I didn't start reading shoujo manga in earnest until I was in my 20s, and by then I was too old for alot of 80s and 90s shoujo; even the critically acclaimed shoujo manga of the past few years. "NANA" bored the bejesus out of me. "Fruit Baskets" was cute and uninteresting. Nodame, from "Nodame Cantabile", is a talented dimwit. But whether I like the stories or not, it doesn't change my respect for shoujo as an institute. Nowhere else in the world would you find a cultural phenomenon as dedicated to women's entertainment as shoujo manga and it's offshoots. So I felt genuine sadness when I heard the news of "Margaret", one of the oldest shoujo magazines around, struggling with low sales and cancellations.

This is a matter of grave concern. Weekly and biweekly magazines are the life-blood of the manga industry - how well they sell and what stories they carry can influence the direction of the industry. Most manga magazines have suffered a drop in sales since the early 90s, including front-runner "Shounen Jump", but then shounen magazines have always outsold shoujo magazines. "Shounen Jump" may not sell 6 million copies anymore, but it's not losing any readers. Instead, they've been gaining readers, mostly female. This isn't a big surprise to someone who grew up reading shounen, but from the sales of the shoujo magazines, it seems that girls are either abandoning them to read shounen, or abandoning manga altogether. This has been happening for quite a while, and it's the cause for alot of debate. We all know shounen is unapologetically aimed at boys, just like shoujo is unapologetically aimed at girls. Why is it that shounen is gaining girl readers, whereas shoujo hardly ever attracts male readers.

I have several theories for that, and one of them is that shounen is no longer unapologetically aimed at boys. It hasn't been aimed purely at boys for a long time, and you can clearly see the delineations should you compare a 70s "Shounen Jump" with a contemporary one. The drawing styles have completely changed, for one. No more thick-eyebrows gekiga, rough edged art. There are less simpering, idiotic female characters. There is often romance, and large ensemble casts. And most of all, there are alot of pretty boys - bishounen and biseinen that only used to be found in shoujo. In other worlds, shounen manga has consciously become more gender-neutral in its appeal, by appropriating what used to make shoujo manga appealing to girls. If you were a girl and you weren't all that INTO girly-romance, you're just as likely to read shounen manga with cute male leads than you would read shoujo. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the shounen audience. Shoujo to this day has not done anything to attract a male audience, but if it tries, we'll all end up with this unisex of an androgynous teen manga look.

The second reason for the rise of the female shounen readership may be the yaoi doujinshi subculture. Girls like to draw dishy young men in bed with other dishy young men, and the shounen magazines offer a very good selection of dishy young men for this purpose. "Prince of Tennis" comes to mind - it's definately a shounen sports manga, but take one look at the (many) male characters in it, and you know the yaoi fans have descended on this title long ago. This is good enough reason for the yaoi fans to want to read "Prince of Tennis", no matter how bad it is, and I guess some of this fuels the shounen magazine readerships. Certainly, professionally-drawn "Boys Love" has also been a sizeable part of the shoujo market since the 90s, but I don't think it has much to do with the doujinshi market. As far as I can tell, girls buy BL manga, but they don't draw doujinshi based on them. In fact, the most popular doujinshi tend to be based on existing shounen series.

Some people suggested the reason for this is because shounen manga often has larger casts than shoujo. This can't possibly be true, because while "Prince of Tennis" has a large ensemble casts, other targets of yaoi artists have very small male casts. I take some recent Taiwanese yaoi doujinshi as an example. Taiwanese doujinshi has the advantage of being very attuned to what the Japanese doujinshi market is doing, and so they act accordingly. Thanks to Poshua bringing stacks of Taiwanese yaoi doujinshi into the workplace, it's now possible to figure out a timeline for the popularly of certain shounen series. A few years ago, it was "Harry Potter" (yaoi doujinshi artists don't necessarily work from manga, and they also do original work). Then came a huge wave of "Prince of Tennis", and when everyone got bored with that, along came a stack of "Full Metal Alchemist". Currently, the yaoi of the month is "Death Note" (or was, 2 months ago). The last two are particularly telling. "FMA" has only a hand-full of bishounen, a fraction of "Prince of Tennis", while "Death Note" has only TWO yaoi-worthy males (and one of them looks like a freak). The fact that there are endless scenes of these same two guys in sexual situations shows that yaoi doujinshi artists aren't attracted to shounen because of ensemble casts. The size of the cast has no bearing on who they choose to put into bed together. The qualities required seem to be based mostly on popularity in general society.

So does that spell doom for shoujo? Ofcourse not. As Matt said in his article, shoujo may currently be crippled by bad stories and formula plots, but there's plenty of room for improvement. In the 70s, shoujo was mainly know for it's innovation and its willingness to push boundaries - now, it just needs another dose of reactionary politics. Who knows what the future may hold? As Matt said, young Japanese are now more politically-minded than their parent's generation, and if the editors know how to capitalise on that, they may win back their old readership. Only time will tell. I, for one, don't want to see the market merge into something androgynous just to appeal to both sexes. There are advantages to appealing to only one gender, and you're able to do things that you won't if you were working in a mixed environment. And the existence of shoujo in the first place proves you can make money out of it too.
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: [info]ayvah
2006-05-26 02:52 pm (UTC)

(Link)

I think one factor in the popularity of fan-yaoi of shounen manga may be that it's more experimental. Imagine, for example, you could write a comic parody based on James Bond and it'd probably be more interesting than basing it on Austin Powers. It's easier to add something that isn't there.

Then again, maybe that's just me.
From: (Anonymous)
2006-05-27 01:49 am (UTC)

(Link)

Firt of all, congrats on the third print running ^_^ I hope its in Star, because my school only gets star- that way I can force, I mean persuade my friends to buy one ^_^ And the second cover looks great by the way =P

As for the whole Shoujo thing, I agree. I thought Shoujo was just going down in America, but Asia too? >.> In America and stuff, its mostly shounen stuff going big- Pokemon, Digimon, DBZ, Yugioh, Beyblades, it goes on and on. While the only shoujos that have made it big are Sailormoon, Cardcaptors and now Mew Mew Power. I remember, as a kid I would watch like all of them, and so would the rest of the girls, but the guys would only watch the shounen ones (and sometimes cardcaptors, because of Li's role). Hopefully new Shoujo ideas will increase popularity ^_^

-Emily
From: (Anonymous)
2006-06-11 06:43 pm (UTC)

Good Morning!

(Link)

I cant believe it.I'm only 8 years old and i'm talking to the one and only queenie chan!I love The Dreaming volume #1.Millie was a nice girl to bad she died.Anyway,my birthday is October 20.I wish my birthday was on november because I could get The Dreaming vol.2 for a present.Also,is any one else going to die?Do you read other anime manga?Got to go.Bye queeniechan!It was nice talking to you!
[User Picture]From: [info]queeniechan
2006-06-17 12:21 pm (UTC)

Re: Good Morning!

(Link)


Hi there! :D Nice to hear from such a young fan! I'm glad you enjoyed book 1 - book 2 will come out a month after your birthday, and to be honest, if you can't get it for a birthday gift, you can always get it for Christmas. :D And no one else you may like is going to die... hehe. :P But apart from that, no more spoilers.
From: (Anonymous)
2006-06-18 08:25 pm (UTC)

The Dreaming

(Link)

Thank you for answering queeniechan!I thought you never would answer.:):)
So,anyway my sister,Anonymous Q (don't tell her that I said she is my sister)told me The Dreaming is your first published work so no use asking "What manga have you wrote instead The Dreaming".What manga are you planning to write next?Have you seen other manga on TV?Like Naruto,One Piece,Zatch Bell,and...that's it?If not I read more manga.Hope you answer mine.Bye Queeniechan!It's always a pleasure to chat with you!
[User Picture]From: [info]queeniechan
2006-06-21 01:55 am (UTC)

Re: The Dreaming

(Link)


I'm really busy at times, so I don't always answer promptly. I try, but heck, work gets in the way. ;) And yes, your sister's right, "The Dreaming" is my first published work, so I've got other work lined up, including a drama about a dark family secret (up next). And I certainly have read alot of manga, including Naruto, One Piece but not Zatch Bell. I would recommend Inuyasha and Bleach to you though. ;)
From: (Anonymous)
2006-06-22 02:10 am (UTC)

Manga

(Link)

I already read InuYasha.I don't like Kikyo that much.(No offense if you like Kikyo)I just read the 2 dollar deal.It's nice how he gets the candle,the heart pin cusion,and the magnet.I think my sister has read bleach.I'll get information from her.I recommend A perfect day for love letters or Imadoki!Hope you answer queeniechan.I sure like typeing to you.Bye!Oh my name is Chelsea.
[User Picture]From: [info]queeniechan
2006-06-23 12:51 pm (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)


Hi Chelsea. Nice to know you're reading other manga too (including mine). And I don't much like Kikyo either - I find her cold, and pretty nasty at times. Kagome's much better. :)

And regarding "The Two Dollar Deal", hopefully you did notice that:
Candle + Heart pin cushion + Magnet = I Love You
From: (Anonymous)
2006-06-23 06:45 pm (UTC)

Re:Manga

(Link)

It turns out that my sister doesen't read bleach.I was planning to read it at barnes and nobles.It only had vol.2.Any idea where I can get Bleach vol.1?I have noticed that it equals to I love you.Here is some info about Imadoki:A girl named tanpopo(means dandilion)goes to a new high school.The other students call her weed.She tries to fight for a planting community.She makes friends with the most popular boy in the school and is secretly in love with him.A perfect day for love letters just tells love stories.It's kinda weird you only answer me.Oh well.Bye queeniechan!
[User Picture]From: [info]queeniechan
2006-06-25 12:39 pm (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)

Actually, I reply to alot of comments, not just yours. :) I don't know where you can get Bleach, but doesn't Viz release it? It's one of their more popular titles, so I'm sure there are alot of places where you can find it. And Imadoki sounds pretty cute... though a bit too young for me (I'm 26). And I think I HAVE read "A perfect day for love letters". I sounds SO familiar for some reason... oh well.
From: (Anonymous)
2006-06-25 04:38 pm (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)

Your 26?!Whens your birthday?If you have read A Perfect Day For Love Letters my favorite one in vol.1 is the mailmans love.In vol.2 I like the fax story.I also mean you only answer to me in live journal 11 or 12.If you think Imadoki! is kinda childish then how about Fruits Basket.Fruits Basket is about a girl named Torhu finds out about a dark family secret in the sohma family.The secret is when the family gets hug by the oppisite sex they turn into a chinese zodiac.The dark family secret is kinda like your next manga series.When you answer back to this please tell me about Bleach.Bye queeniechan.Hope you answer this one if its too long.Chelsea out.:)
[User Picture]From: [info]queeniechan
2006-07-01 02:42 am (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)


Hmm, I think I HAVEN'T read "A perfect day for love letters" then... but I'll keep an eye for it on the shelves. And I HAVE read "Fruit Baskets", and I think it's pretty cute. I assure you though, the "dark family secret" in my next manga is NOTHING like the one in "Fruit Baskets"! XD As for "Bleach", it's a shounen story (aimed at boys) so you may not like it, but if you like "Naruto" then I don't see why not. "Bleach" is about a boy who runs into... Death. Death is a girl, and there are lots of others like her, and eventually he gains the powers of Death as well. I read it a long time ago and don't remember much, but it's about the responsibilities of being Death (there's more, but don't remember it).
From: (Anonymous)
2006-07-04 04:03 pm (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)

It's okay if you don't remember some bleach.It sounds cool.What bookstore do you got to?I go to Barnes & nobles or borders.Sorry I have to go.My brother (Rocky) just said we are eatting out for breakfest.Bye!
From: (Anonymous)
2006-07-25 05:10 pm (UTC)

Re: Manga

(Link)

I'm sorry we haven't talked.So do you go to Viz media?Let's not talk until vol.2 comes to you.
[User Picture]From: [info]sirchuc
2006-06-16 01:04 am (UTC)

...

(Link)

Me and my friend read and watched Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou back in year 9 and throughly enjoyed it, and both of us didn't realise it was shoujo until I wikied the series after finishing it.. O_o

The manga might be very shoujo, but the series borrows a lot from Gainax's previous works, hence maybe presenting a shoujo story "shounenly" (if that is a word..)



From: (Anonymous)
2007-07-02 09:19 pm (UTC)

(Link)

odd1906evil@even2006good.com




Concert for Princess Diana in England.
Diana was preditory on women.
I ask about the princes, how many there have been THIS YEAR. "A couple." And so three for the calendar year? "For one." of them.
So whereas the BLCloneHosts normally take a schedule of every couple years, when they are "special" they are a couple every year?
Nice system. You're great managers.

Addendum:::The terorism attacks thwarted in England and the violence in Scotland over the weekend were because of that monster's concert:::They are sending a clue to people that they shouldn't be participating, for she's evil and was used to hurt each and every person who participated in the explosion of the tabloid sensationalism which ocurred while she was on the clock.



Like all the examples they have created, the gods are continuing to manufacture the perception of salvation in an attempt to corrupt the disfavored prevy to this theater. Now we have people who will wait for boss to save them, even AFTER I am dead, for they will tell them I was reincarnated into a different family and will still save everybody before The End.


This is an environment that minimzes the value of the role of women, excludes them and makes them feel as if they don't belong.
This is an enviornment that forces women to accept this exclusionary enviornment. However there IS an alternative::::Assimilate through a process of masculinization.
The gods instruct AI to make the girls experience this in hope they feel uncomfortable and seek. Unfortunately the legacy of corruption is firmly in place and too many of those cast into damnation won't be returning.

The optimal ascention senario is when parents depart Earth with their young children BEFORE their minds are posioned by this society. The next best-case senario is when an individual finds the path themself and makes their way out before puberty.
Children who go up before puberty are candidates to remain the most superior of all life forms::The asexual. Expect these people to experience subsequent temptations once they arrive to further shrink the pool of candidates. Another example males are inferior to females:::Expect circumcision to play a part in this elimination round.
I think these are the TRUE candidates for immortality. This is not to say there won't be sexualized people who make it, but those who do likely practice minimally and monogamously in the context of marriage, and that would exclude most if not all from modern society.
The sexualization of children is yet another example proving the gods are preditory on children::::It eliminates these individuals from contention immediately.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another good example of "reverse positioning"::::::::::

The gods peaked many (most?) 1849 Gold Rush miners euphorically, drawing the indecent, unrespectable disfavored out to California, people who sought easy wealth.
California is god's most favored land, and when the disfavored settle here the gods attack them, illustrated with examples below.

California disfavored were inflicted with abuse early:::
1. Casual sex of the hippie "free love" movement.
2. Methenfetamine scourge in California started roughly in early 80s. It took another 15 years for it to spread to middle America.
3. They've always drawn disfavored whom they dumped into homosexuality to California, but now homosexuality has become "popular" in the heartland.
4.
5.
6.

They used California as a platform to spread social poison in the latter half of the 20th century, often accomplished through referendum as we approached 2000. Expect it to cost each and every Californian who failed to get out before the 60s (or earlier).
From: (Anonymous)
2007-07-04 07:43 pm (UTC)

(Link)

Important people in my life were born on traditional American holidays intentionally as a clue that people should be celebrating something besides the holiday society recognizes:::
- 4th of July
- Halloween


The gods use these BLCloneHost tools in many ways. One way is in the context of dating.
They will justify the abuse by instructing the computer to create golddigging thoughts. Of course with Italians this thought isn't artificial because so many are an affront. But as I personally know anyone involved with these people are in trouble, for computer-inspired thoughts often will be compensated, a foreboding reality for the people of the 20th century.
They gods switch these tools for a new Brain-LessCloneHost and the computer pushes their date into perceiving a difference yet also pushes them into not caring or not wanting to see. The result is she ends up sleeping with multiple men.

First they create the problem, offer a solution/benefit and come across as your friend. Expect tactics like this are used to gain people's trust and compell them to engage in evil, like intentionally sabotage their children's lives for some empty promise of a big benefit.



Quit affecting my mind you fuckng joke of a combatant.
And this is how history will judge you based on the one (of few) time(s) a man was willing to take on the gods.
You suck CHEATER.
The GreenBay/LakeMichigan clue is about me.
The gods hate the disfavored's guts and want you all to fail.

They wanted to create enough doubt in people's minds:::
1. Credibility
2. Unemployment
3. Artificial Intelligence-created thoughts and behavior
3. The gods manufactured the freedom to argue that Quasi-Holocaust was not a real Jewish clue specifically to create this doubt.
There are lots of other examples too. This is a way to minimize the help, maximize the "back-hand" (boss) and ensure few were receptive despite the god's pathological behavior spammed on the internet for the world to see.
They shared with me a number of "4.6%." This 4.6% may refer to my effectiveness or perhaps the overall save rate. If so expect the black save rate to be WELL under 1%.



The gods are preditory on children:::Orphanages.
Orphanages would be very special places if they still existed:::Specialists for the state would have instituted concrete, positive standards for the healthy rearing of children. These institutions would have been role models for poor parents, and they gods didin't want THE MOST healthy institutions in place for the most disfavored among us.
It would never have been tolerated.
So the gods instituted the foster care system, used these monsters they have on Earth, brain-less Clone host, to facilitate the switch/ridicule the old system. Now we have disfavored kids micromanaged as per each's disfavor level instead of them all placed in an orphange where the gods would have been forced to apply healthy state standars.
They won't tolerate reverse irony::::The most disfavored among us would be the ones with the best chance.
Of course most of the foster care kids (pc) were black.


The optimal ascention senario is when parents depart Earth with their young children BEFORE their minds are posioned by this society. The next best-case senario is when an individual finds the path themself and makes their way out before puberty.
Children who go up before puberty are candidates to remain the most superior of all life forms::The asexual. Expect these people to experience subsequent temptations once they arrive to further shrink the pool of candidates. Another example males are inferior to females:::Expect circumcision to play a part in this elimination round.
I think these are the TRUE candidates for immortality. This is not to say there won't be sexualized people who make it, but those who do likely practice minimally and monogamously in the context of marriage, and that would exclude most if not all from modern society.
The sexualization of children is yet another example proving the gods are preditory on children::::It eliminates these individuals from contention immediately.