I definitely respect the influx of yaoi from Japan. It's nice to see male homosexuality become more mainstream, at least as a "fetish" the overly prudish western world.

When it comes to romance, I really don't care whether the characters are both male, female or one of each. Women are better to look at, but I don't read a story just for the eye candy.


I think that for yuri to survive in the west, it needs to be as well written as and successful heterosexual manga. Men wanting lesbians will always have the explicit stuff. Yuri should have global appeal and be as well written as anything.

For yuri to be successful, it needs to be marketed as romance. I might suggest the label "girl romance" (similar to shoujo-ai).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

I agree with that. And by the way, I'm putting up the list of stores right now.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Okay. Thanks.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

I remember when an add for The O.C. that semi-popular drama was on. They showed 'girl on girl' adds for ages when there wasn't any. Westerners must really love lesbians O_o If manga was bigger in America, it would be really popular

(Reply to this) (Thread)

I'm not sure about the really popular part concerning girl-on-girl action. Rather, I think it will stir up some controversy, though less so than the yaoi.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Hi! I'm surprised to see you here. My friend Diaphanus (also on LJ) linked to this so I'm going to respond since I read your entry. And now for the commentary! Yay!

I'll admit it. I'm a boy who likes yuri. Likes is a bit weak. I love seeing my favorite characters in compromising situations. For example, when I watched Love Hina back when it was only available via fansub, I was torn whether to like it or hate it until Mutsumi kissed Naru, I was hooked at that point. It was the first time I can remember a serious "boys" show crossing over and accepting a yuri/shoujo-ai situation.

Of course, since then its become trendy. Kannazuki no Miko caused people to jump for joy, but I saw that show as the equivalent of a Loveless or a Gravion with a yuri bent. What I mean by that is a show that uses yuri as a tool to entice viewers to watch it. I couldn't take it seriously and still wonder why so many fans do.

But on the other hand, Maria-sama ga Miteru was amazing. It didn't use yuri to draw you in, it hinted and teased but never crossed the line. It became something to cherish and enjoy, even with my less yuri welcoming friends.

Now yuri has exploded in anime, this spring we have Kashimashi ~girl meets girl~, Strawberry Panic! and Mai Otome aiming at the yurification of the world. I think this is a sign there is a market on both sides of the ocean for yuri.

Perhaps yuri lovers aren't as boisterous as yaoi fangirls, but we exist and will open our wallets for it if it is made.

Especially if the girls are cute. :P

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Hey! Sorry about the late reply, but what you've said is very interesting! I don't watch much anime anymore (no time), but it's interesting to hear from people on their real-life experiences. I thankyou for posting this up. Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions, or maybe even an interview? I'd like to know what your viewing preferences are, and why you're so attracted to yuri. Guys attracted to yuri are a definate minority, but it's interesting that you discriminate between what you watch. Is it the romance factor of it that draws you in? Because you mention liking the tantalising hints, but not liking it when the anime creators try and bash you over the head with the yuri angles.

I wonder because this attitude seems to have something in common with yaoi fangirls, believe it or not. Many yaoi fangirls like to yaoi-fy perfectly straight shounen shows with fanfiction or doujinshi, but few of them do it for shoujo manga/shows. But then I'm pretty sure Sailor Moon has it's stacks of yuri fanfiction out there itself. What do you think?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

*grin* No worries, I didn't really expect an immediate answer. I work on the internet so I'm always online but I know better than to expect everyone else to be the same. :D I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. (An interview would be very neat too.)

Its going to take me a while to write an answer for these questions. I'll probably start writing it now and post it later since I'm at work and this is going to take some thinking to put into words. :D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

I'm a very well rounded anime fan. I like to watch lots of shows and different genres. I most enjoy girl’s anime because I feel the stories are much better than in the majority of boy focused shows, with exceptions of course. If I had to name a favorite show, I'd go with Maison Ikkoku because it is such a very well done story with a good mix of comedy, drama and tragedy. Then again, nothing beats a good magical girl fest. :D I watch too much anime really.

I'd definately say it is the romance factor that draws me in. I am a sucker for a good romance. I love chick flicks. (and I'm single, ladies, this is your chance! :P) Give me a good movie with Sandra Bullock and I'm a very happy Catlord. I'll admit that part of that is that I find her very attractive. I'll also admit that part of the reason why I like yuri is because of having two cute girls kissing. But if it doesn't have a good story, I won't pay for it, or if I've downloaded it I won't pick it up when it crosses the ocean. And I'll admit, I buy most everything if it comes over the ocean. (Unfortunately, I'm running out of room so I'm becoming pickier.)

About preferring hints to being bashed over the head with yuri, I’d have to say I don’t have a problem with a story involving a serious, mature, even explicit relationship between two girls. No, I’d actually really enjoy that. I just don’t like it when it is tacked on or feels like it was only there to draw in fans of yuri, especially if it is rushed or unbelievable. I don’t really mind if it is only used as a plot twist, when Mutsumi kissed Naru in Love Hina, it was a twist that came out of nowhere, but one that left me wondering if there were real feelings behind Mutsumi’s actions. I believe that Mutsumi would have accepted Naru as a partner, or even shared in a three way relationship with Naru and Keitarou (whom both girls had backstory important to the plot of the show). And beyond the “kiss” scene, Mutsumi’s sexuality and consciousness of her sexuality was always in question. She was a very beautiful girl, but was sort of… clueless. I liked her as a character. She added to the mystery surrounding the girl that Keitarou promised to be with when he grew up.

In comparison, Kannazuki no Miko did the opposite. It presented Chikane as someone driven in her desire for Himeko, even going to the point of raping her “beloved” when she turned from the light to the dark side. It was believable until this point. After the rape of Himeko, she became the main villain of the show and Himeko, being so pure, forgave her immediately. I could not stomach that twist and the fact that it threw the male love interest to the wolves. The boy, who became incredibly forgettable at this point, ends up sacrificing himself, but in the end Chikane and Himeko end up together. I just found myself staring at the screen in awe and disgust. Himeko’s actions were unbelievable. It was just too poorly written and executed.

I don’t believe that shonen versus shoujo comes into play when it comes to what I enjoy yuri wise. There are shoujo anime that include lesbians that I can’t stand. I don’t especially like Haruka in Sailor Moon, despite her popularity amoungst other yuri fans. At least part of that is that Haruka’s design is very androgynous, making her to be an acceptable girl because the other girl in the relationship didn’t know at first. I don’t like the bait and switch. If I’m reading about girls falling in love with girls, I want them to look like girls. Does that make sense? :D

As a fanfiction writer, I’ve written yuri fanfic for both shoujo and shonen shows. I don’t run into any problems, I think that I’ve written in both sides of the anime coin about equally. I’ve even written my share of Sailor Moon yurific. :D The importance to me is that the pairing needs to be believable and realistic.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Thanks for your reply! :D This is rather interesting and I'd like to ask some more questions. Do you know a number of yuri fans (I'm sure you do) that you can talk about in a way that shines some more light on what yuri fans are like (and the market for them)? I ask because I'm thinking on doing an interview on a doujinshi artist I know from Taiwan, and who's into yaoi. It'll make an interesting contrast. :D

Do you know what the gender ratio for yuri fanfiction is (in terms of the writers)? It seems that you are definately interested in character development and interaction, except with a yuri bent on it. If a story is badly written, you won't enjoy it, yuri or not. Would you say the same for the other yuri fans you know? You also mention you don't like Haruka, because you prefer the yuri girls to be both girly, rather than one androgynous and one girly. The androgyny aspect probably appeals to people who prefer a dominant-submissive aspect in their character's relationships, regardless of whether it's girl-girl or boy-boy. Do you have that preference, or do you prefer to see two people interact on a more "equal" footing?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

I think the best answer I can give about yuri fans is that we're... quiet. Yaoi fans are loud about it. Regardless of where you see them, online, bookstores, anime conventions, they're vocal about it. Yuri fans are much more reserved about it. Maybe it has to do with most of us being guys and trying not to draw attention to ourselves. It is odd, but I find that it seems to be easier for girls to be excited about yaoi where if I would be "OMG yuri squee!" I'd be some sort of weird perv. (Not that I'm not some sort of weird perv, I just don't like advertising. *laugh*) I like pairing up couples from anime, and writing about them, but I'd have a hard time, for example, buying a "yuri paddle" or wearing a yuri-rrific t-shirt. But mainly that is because even when I'm around anime fans, I don't wear convention t-shirts, anime t-shirts, etc, the furthest I'd go is perhaps a hatpin and I actually took the one I used to wear off my hat since I did not want to lose it. (I don't wear hats very often regardless, only if its snowing and I'm desperate to keep the snow out of my hair.)

Its hard for me to say the ration of men to women writing yuri fanfiction. I have to admit, the ones written by women tend to be superior to those written by men. I started writing fanfiction because I enjoyed reading erotica and wasn't able to find fanfic that met my taste in erotic fiction. Even in mainstream erotic "literature" circles, lesbian sex stories are mainly written by men, and in my opinion, not very good. That was another reason why I started writing, I felt that I could... well... fill a void. Yeah, I had delusions of grandeur. :P

I'd say that most yuri fans would agree that story trumps everything. I'd forgive bad art before I forgive a bad story. But that is probably the writer in me speaking.

I'd say that in most yaoi, both parties in the relationship are androgynous. From my experience, yaoi fans tend to pair up bishonen, for example the entire cast of Fushigi Yuugi, Saiyuki or Gravitation. There aren't many sweaty, bulky manly men offered up to be slashed. Perhaps this is changing, but I've not noticed a trend towards making the main characters in yaoi any less femme. I don't think this is a dominant-submissive issue, since in most of the pairings I tend to be familiar with, both parties are rather ladylike.

I think one of the reasons why I like having two girls in love is that women can more easily speak about their emotions without being "angsty" or "emo". I do believe that yuri fans are less concerned about who's on top in the relationship than yaoi fans are, possibly due to the difference in how women make love to each other and how two men do, and the emotions involved in each position. I have to admit, I'm not into yaoi myself, but I could find writing about the relationship between two men interesting. I... well... to be honest, I'm still a bit in love with being in love. I like writing about it, since my own lovelife isn't exactly spectacular. Writing is my chocolate. :P

(Wow, I'm longwinded today. :P )

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

Thanks for the reply. :D But as you can see, my LJ got sidetracked by a horror essay. I'll be posting up your yuri answers when I find the time. :D

So, do you feel you can relate to the yuri characters more on an "emotional expression" level than those in "normal" stories? I ask because I know straight men sometimes identify with women, because they believe women have more freedom to express themselves emotionally, and have a wider emotional range. It's a way of exploring your own feelings, but through either a hypothetical situation, or through the eyes of another person (aka character). ;D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

No worries. I enjoyed your horror essay as well. :D

I don't think I relate better to those in yuri stories, cause I know that I'll never really experience the same feelings they do. The whole male thing is hard to overcome. I do relate with some het relationships, I gush badly over Keiichi and Belldandy for example.... I think the problem is that in the majority of het romances, the man's feeling takes second place to those of the woman in the relationship and often the male romantic lead is barely explored. Maybe I should watch more shonen anime, but shoujo is so much better most of the time.

I'll totally admit to living vicariously through characters, even to the point of having a live journal dedicated to the life of one of my original characters. I'd say that I experience more through them when I'm ficcing them than when I am watching them in anime or reading about them in manga. But, didn't everyone dream about being a prince, or a princess, a doctor, fireman or just being a mommy or daddy when they were little? I think that this is discouraged too much as adults. :D

Sometimes I think I feel too much. So I wouldn't say that I'm watching a show to experiment with feeling the characters emotions, but maybe more to reinforce that the feelings I have are normal and that I'm ok?

To a degree, even answering your questions is exploring my feelings and my thought processes. I like it. Please don't stop asking! :D

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)